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	<title>Comments on: ntpd and windows server 2003 sp1 w32time</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.loftninjas.org/2007/11/08/ntpd-and-windows-server-2003-sp1-w32time/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.loftninjas.org/2007/11/08/ntpd-and-windows-server-2003-sp1-w32time/</link>
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		<title>By: Chris Madden</title>
		<link>http://blog.loftninjas.org/2007/11/08/ntpd-and-windows-server-2003-sp1-w32time/comment-page-1/#comment-4111</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Madden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 19:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.loftninjas.org/?p=87#comment-4111</guid>
		<description>I learned that to allow other NTP servers to sync with a Windows w32time server that is NOT connected to an external time source you just need to reduce localclockdispersion to 0 and reload the config:

w32tm /config /localclockdispersion:0
w32tm /config /update

The result is now your rootdispersion is basically 0 + actual from CMOS clock, or well below 1 sec.  As such other NTP peers will sync OK instead of giving the rejecting with the &quot;flash=400 peer_dist&quot; error.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I learned that to allow other NTP servers to sync with a Windows w32time server that is NOT connected to an external time source you just need to reduce localclockdispersion to 0 and reload the config:</p>
<p>w32tm /config /localclockdispersion:0<br />
w32tm /config /update</p>
<p>The result is now your rootdispersion is basically 0 + actual from CMOS clock, or well below 1 sec.  As such other NTP peers will sync OK instead of giving the rejecting with the &#8220;flash=400 peer_dist&#8221; error.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Liddicott</title>
		<link>http://blog.loftninjas.org/2007/11/08/ntpd-and-windows-server-2003-sp1-w32time/comment-page-1/#comment-3175</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Liddicott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.loftninjas.org/?p=87#comment-3175</guid>
		<description>Sounds like you might want msntp which is more for slaving clocks than tracking a reliable time source (which you possibly don&#039;t have - I noticed you having to lie about it to get partial success).

http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/lucid/man1/msntp.1.html

To slave my clock, I&#039;ll be playing with a loop something like:

while :
do
  # step-sync at bootup and before samba starts
  msntp -r –P no $DC
  # now run in adjtime mode forever
  msntp -a -x $DC
  # if msntp quits, we are either shutting down
  # or something horrid happened so step-sync and try again
done</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like you might want msntp which is more for slaving clocks than tracking a reliable time source (which you possibly don&#8217;t have &#8211; I noticed you having to lie about it to get partial success).</p>
<p><a href="http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/lucid/man1/msntp.1.html">http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/lucid/man1/msntp.1.html</a></p>
<p>To slave my clock, I&#8217;ll be playing with a loop something like:</p>
<p>while :<br />
do<br />
  # step-sync at bootup and before samba starts<br />
  msntp -r –P no $DC<br />
  # now run in adjtime mode forever<br />
  msntp -a -x $DC<br />
  # if msntp quits, we are either shutting down<br />
  # or something horrid happened so step-sync and try again<br />
done</p>
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		<title>By: btm</title>
		<link>http://blog.loftninjas.org/2007/11/08/ntpd-and-windows-server-2003-sp1-w32time/comment-page-1/#comment-139</link>
		<dc:creator>btm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2007 00:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.loftninjas.org/?p=87#comment-139</guid>
		<description>So the first two vm guests went fine, but the next two on another host kept having really high jitter.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I researched a bit more after seeing this:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;syslog.0:Nov  9 06:25:01 vmware04 kernel: rtc: lost some interrupts at 512Hz.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.vmware.com/pdf/vmware_timekeeping.pdf&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Apparently &lt;/a&gt; timing on guest os&#039;s is complicated and I shouldn&#039;t be installing ntp. Oh well. I noticed the difference between the two host boxes was the lack of a 64bit kernel on the one not working correctly. I also noticed weird networking issues on it like double outbound packets, but I&#039;m going to pretend that was a dream. There are &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://nixy.dk/2007/10/24/quickpost-rtc-problems-in-debian-on-dell-poweredge-servers/&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;bits&lt;/a&gt; out there on fixing this by hand, but the new amd64 kernel (linux-image-2.6.18-5-amd64) works whereas the other one (linux-image-2.6.18-4-686) didn&#039;t.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;On the new host kernel, ntp on the guest os has reasonable jitter and seems to be working right. (i still see weird network stuff, still pretending it doesn&#039;t exist).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Later I&#039;ll worry about not running ntp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So the first two vm guests went fine, but the next two on another host kept having really high jitter.</p>
<p>I researched a bit more after seeing this:</p>
<p>syslog.0:Nov  9 06:25:01 vmware04 kernel: rtc: lost some interrupts at 512Hz.</p>
<p><a HREF="http://www.vmware.com/pdf/vmware_timekeeping.pdf">Apparently </a> timing on guest os&#8217;s is complicated and I shouldn&#8217;t be installing ntp. Oh well. I noticed the difference between the two host boxes was the lack of a 64bit kernel on the one not working correctly. I also noticed weird networking issues on it like double outbound packets, but I&#8217;m going to pretend that was a dream. There are <a HREF="http://nixy.dk/2007/10/24/quickpost-rtc-problems-in-debian-on-dell-poweredge-servers/">bits</a> out there on fixing this by hand, but the new amd64 kernel (linux-image-2.6.18-5-amd64) works whereas the other one (linux-image-2.6.18-4-686) didn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>On the new host kernel, ntp on the guest os has reasonable jitter and seems to be working right. (i still see weird network stuff, still pretending it doesn&#8217;t exist).</p>
<p>Later I&#8217;ll worry about not running ntp.</p>
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		<title>By: btm</title>
		<link>http://blog.loftninjas.org/2007/11/08/ntpd-and-windows-server-2003-sp1-w32time/comment-page-1/#comment-138</link>
		<dc:creator>btm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 18:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.loftninjas.org/?p=87#comment-138</guid>
		<description>the likelihood of the non PDC DC of being rejected seems to be based on rootdispersion. the localrootdispersion flag has been set to 1, but I feel like this only matters if we&#039;re using the local clock as a source (such as the way the PDC comes by default).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;m getting &quot;400 peer_dist&quot; in &#039;ntpq&#039; &#039;rv&#039; but I&#039;m not sure it&#039;s related even after chatting in #ntp on freenode about it for a bit. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Rootdispersion seems to hang aroubnd 3000-7000, and when it comes down below 100 it&#039;s alright. I&#039;m currently assuming this is the cause of the peer (the DC) being rejected by ntp. I&#039;ve run:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;w32tm /config /manualpeerlist:&quot;0.us.pool.ntp.org 1.us.pool.ntp.org&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;On the box. I can&#039;t find a better way to monitor ntp on server 2003 besides w32tm /monitor, which has no information compared to ntpq/ntpdc which has too much information that isn&#039;t explained. I&#039;m hoping it will act ntpish and sync with more servers, bringing down the rootdispersion, thus being more friendly. This is kind of moot as the PDC is working still, but I&#039;m wary at this point that latency fluctuations will too regularly make both the DC and the PDC unusable time sources as far as ntp is concerned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the likelihood of the non PDC DC of being rejected seems to be based on rootdispersion. the localrootdispersion flag has been set to 1, but I feel like this only matters if we&#8217;re using the local clock as a source (such as the way the PDC comes by default).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m getting &#8220;400 peer_dist&#8221; in &#8216;ntpq&#8217; &#8216;rv&#8217; but I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s related even after chatting in #ntp on freenode about it for a bit. </p>
<p>Rootdispersion seems to hang aroubnd 3000-7000, and when it comes down below 100 it&#8217;s alright. I&#8217;m currently assuming this is the cause of the peer (the DC) being rejected by ntp. I&#8217;ve run:</p>
<p>w32tm /config /manualpeerlist:&#8221;0.us.pool.ntp.org 1.us.pool.ntp.org&#8221;</p>
<p>On the box. I can&#8217;t find a better way to monitor ntp on server 2003 besides w32tm /monitor, which has no information compared to ntpq/ntpdc which has too much information that isn&#8217;t explained. I&#8217;m hoping it will act ntpish and sync with more servers, bringing down the rootdispersion, thus being more friendly. This is kind of moot as the PDC is working still, but I&#8217;m wary at this point that latency fluctuations will too regularly make both the DC and the PDC unusable time sources as far as ntp is concerned.</p>
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		<title>By: btm</title>
		<link>http://blog.loftninjas.org/2007/11/08/ntpd-and-windows-server-2003-sp1-w32time/comment-page-1/#comment-137</link>
		<dc:creator>btm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 17:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.loftninjas.org/?p=87#comment-137</guid>
		<description>Right now the non-pdc is going &quot;reject&quot; again. Page 31 of &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.cis.udel.edu/~mills/database/brief/flow/flow.ppt&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; powerpoint slide has a little useful information about the flow of deciding candidacy. There may me more information hidden in there.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;the flash variable in &#039;rv&#039; in &#039;ntpq&#039; (showpeer in ntpdc brings a numeric equivalent) comes up &quot;00 ok&quot; on the sys.peer (PDC), and &quot;800 peer_loop&quot; on the reject (DC). I&#039;ve checked the refid (&#039;peers&#039; in &#039;ntpq&#039;) as synch loop is supposed to be when two peers are syncing off each other. I may point this DC out at pool.ntp.org as well and see how that goes. This is getting messy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right now the non-pdc is going &#8220;reject&#8221; again. Page 31 of <a HREF="http://www.cis.udel.edu/~mills/database/brief/flow/flow.ppt">this</a> powerpoint slide has a little useful information about the flow of deciding candidacy. There may me more information hidden in there.</p>
<p>the flash variable in &#8216;rv&#8217; in &#8216;ntpq&#8217; (showpeer in ntpdc brings a numeric equivalent) comes up &#8220;00 ok&#8221; on the sys.peer (PDC), and &#8220;800 peer_loop&#8221; on the reject (DC). I&#8217;ve checked the refid (&#8216;peers&#8217; in &#8216;ntpq&#8217;) as synch loop is supposed to be when two peers are syncing off each other. I may point this DC out at pool.ntp.org as well and see how that goes. This is getting messy.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: btm</title>
		<link>http://blog.loftninjas.org/2007/11/08/ntpd-and-windows-server-2003-sp1-w32time/comment-page-1/#comment-136</link>
		<dc:creator>btm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 17:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.loftninjas.org/?p=87#comment-136</guid>
		<description>theres talk &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://lists.ntp.isc.org/pipermail/questions/2007-January/012508.html&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; on the ntp list about dispersion, but it appeared to not really matter. The values I got for a synced server from the rv command in ntpq for dispersion were higher than the ones coming from the rejected 2003 server from the same method.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I did pull dispersion down to 5 using the command in the post on the PDC role carrying DC, but yeah. I&#039;m not sure it matters.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;running:&lt;br/&gt;w32tm /config /reliable:yes&lt;br/&gt;w32tm /config /update&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;on a a DC that did not have the PDC role was enough to make it it come up as a &quot;candidate&quot; instead of &quot;reject&quot; in the ntpq &quot;associations&quot; command. I double checked the registry and HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\W32Time\Parameters\Type was still set to NT5DS where as the other changes on the PDC switched this to NTP.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Which is good, as I don&#039;t want to make/manage a Microsoft Time Server system. I just want to get a couple boxes without access to the internet through the firewall to maintain the correct times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>theres talk <a HREF="http://lists.ntp.isc.org/pipermail/questions/2007-January/012508.html">here</a> on the ntp list about dispersion, but it appeared to not really matter. The values I got for a synced server from the rv command in ntpq for dispersion were higher than the ones coming from the rejected 2003 server from the same method.</p>
<p>I did pull dispersion down to 5 using the command in the post on the PDC role carrying DC, but yeah. I&#8217;m not sure it matters.</p>
<p>running:<br />w32tm /config /reliable:yes<br />w32tm /config /update</p>
<p>on a a DC that did not have the PDC role was enough to make it it come up as a &#8220;candidate&#8221; instead of &#8220;reject&#8221; in the ntpq &#8220;associations&#8221; command. I double checked the registry and HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\W32Time\Parameters\Type was still set to NT5DS where as the other changes on the PDC switched this to NTP.</p>
<p>Which is good, as I don&#8217;t want to make/manage a Microsoft Time Server system. I just want to get a couple boxes without access to the internet through the firewall to maintain the correct times.</p>
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